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Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:16 am
Posts: 820
Location: Eastern Iowa

Post Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:32 pm 
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Again... Same answer as Dave's

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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:49 pm
Posts: 104

Post Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:43 pm 
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I used Bullseye over 231 because it was more accurate in my gun.

They were both dirty powders in '80's.

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Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:28 am
Posts: 1230

Post Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:41 am 
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Just saw this thread.. In my PPC days, I could never get the classic 2.7 Bullseye to do much at all.. Very poor accuracy..The 710 fps muzzle velocity of all factory match ammo is a clue.. The HBWC flys best in that area.. 231 is a very good powder for the 38 wadcutter. It tends to produce a gritty residue that can give problems if it gets under the extractor..We kept the speeds in 690 / 710 fps. area..
Clays never worked for us.. Erratic results.. WST is it..or at least it was.. It was a guarded secret for some years.. No one would tell, because the stiff shot so well.. We used 2.6 /2.9 depending on the gun. Barrel twists slower than 14 well not group as well.. 10 twist/12twist is my favorite.

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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:52 pm
Posts: 76

Post Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:06 am 
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Thanks again guys, its interesting to hear what other people have found to be good loads.
As stated earlier, I'll be testing the gun at 50 meters when spring comes, so no real conclusions on the Clays load yet.

About the velocity mentioned by Jerry, 710 fps: I shot the same load of Clays(lee's disc measure, 0.37cc cavity, giving me about 2.4grains) under three different 148grs wadcutters, and got a bit differing results:

-Locally cast Magma type DEWC, sized to .358" chronoed at an average of about 760 fps.
-H&N "plastic coated" .357" HBWC, chronoed at an average of about 750fps.
-Hornady .358" HBW gave me an average of about 710fps.

Jerry, your comments about factory load velocity is very interesting.
My results at the target contradict this, the Hornady bullet was the only one showing tendencies to keyhole, and I have not been able to get the same groups with the Hornady bullet as the others. The DEWC has given me the most stable groups shot over a padded rest, but I do realize that I am a big part of the system, and that hand held shooting by an average shooter like me will not be stable enough to draw conclusions.

But does not the keyholing of the slower Hornady bullet indicate that higher velocity is needed to stabilize? Or can the HBWC be accurate at longer ranges, even if there is some keyholing present?

I guess I should go back and measure my rifling twist again, as I am a bit uncertain abot the origins of this barrel. It is stamped with a "C" and a "K" at the ejector rod cutout, does that tell anyone anything?

I really need to get these loads shot through a machine rest at longer ranges, I guess that will be the only real proof of anything.

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Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:28 am
Posts: 1230

Post Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:20 pm 
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A 10 or 12 twist will easily stabilize 148 HBWC at 690/710 fps at 50 yards. I think Douglas is still making 10 twist. Shilen I believe is special order.. I haven't checked lately.
When the twist is slow, increasing the fps sometimes help, which might be the case with your gun. But, then recoil goes up, and lost points with it.. Never got great groups from the Hornady HBWCs.. Remington 148 is/was the best.
When the big three, Rem. Win. and Federal were making lots of match ammo during the 80/90s for PPC, it was all 710 fps because that is the sweet spot for that projectile from the fast twist barrels.. Shoot some from your 18.75 twist S&W revovler, and you will see the yaw marks on the target....When 231 was the powder of choice, most were shooting 2.9/3.0 gr.. When WST was discovered, 2.6 / 2.9 were the preferred loads.. These loads are all in the 690/700 area, according to printed data and the chamber pressures were low.. I never owned a chronograph.. The ransom rest is all you need.. Good luck.

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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:52 pm
Posts: 76

Post Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:16 pm 
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Jerry Keefer wrote:
Shoot some from your 18.75 twist S&W revovler, and you will see the yaw marks on the target....


Has already been done :D a shooter who saw it told me "but 148grs wadcutters alway make oval holes".... Most Norwegian gunsmiths use the Lothar Walther 1:18.75 twist barrels, because thats what is easily awailable here, and noone questions the LW-blanks. Most people shoot 105grs SWC's anyway, so they dont have any trouble.

I have been wondering about LW's 9mm blanks, they are rifled 1:10.
The grooves in the 9mm LW blanks are cut to the same diameter as the 38 blanks(9,02mm/.355")
But the bore is a bit tighter on the 38 blanks (8,79mm/.346" bore VS 8,82mm/.347") Would that make much difference?
Its a tight fit for a bullet that leaves the cylinder somewhere between .357" and .358" anyway.

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Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:55 am
Posts: 5

Post Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:39 am 
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In regards to clays. I had great groups with Alliant ClayDot, but, it meters inconsistently enough for me to drop it for WST like Jerry said.

Clays, and Claydot, just didn't like the small hole lee powder measures. I don't know about the others.

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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:49 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Gilroy, California

Post Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:41 pm 
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I use Hodgdon CLAYS in my "go to" bullseye load. It does sometimes present metering problems but these go away if you use Harrell's Precision's Schuetzen/Pistol measure. I have two and highly recommend them.

Jim

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